Gee Thanks

[MICHIGAN MOUNTAINS]

It must be nice to win the whole league. Then on top of that, land multiple first round picks. And players like Steve Smith. HEY TINKER-BELL!! YOUR NOT JUST SELLING THE FARM! YOUR SELLING IT TO THE GUYS WHO ARE ALREADY THE FAVORITE TO WIN IT ALLSINCE THIS THING F'nSTARTED!WTF??????????? Look at it this way. GIVEN: In order for your team or my team to win this leagueyou have got to take it away from the team on top, not devise a way for them to fill every one of the few remaining holes in their line up. GIVEN: That broken down, quitter QB with no WRs to throw to and that piece of crap LB from Clevelandor somewhere aren't even going to make it close. GIVEN: The idea is to build a dynasty team for yourself, not the otherteams in my division:X. I find it all a little demoralizing. If you don't see my point, just remember that I could have traded Chad Johnson and/or J. Vilma to Champs. Then you would get my point for years to come. I don't think I even want to see any response to this topic.They will likely be The Kings New Wardrobe or Wolf in Sheep's Clothing type.

[sol diablos]

MICHIGAN MOUNTAINS wrote:
In order for your team or my team to win this leagueyou have got to take it away from the team on top, not devise a way for them to fill every one of the few remaining holes in their line up.


I do agree with this statement. We all should be gunning for the champ no matter who it is.

[alvin57]

Wasn't gonna post re: this,but since MM led the parade i'll add my .2 and agree...couldn't have scripted a better scenario for "the champs" if they wrote the trade themselves. Not their fault tho,really seems like a clunker,especially coming from a team thats been critical of other trades being one-sided.On the positive side..its gotta put a smile on the faces of Kinnick/Superpions etc.

[RFLers]

Holy moly, where's the love?

Shep and I actually thought the trade we did with Slappers was pretty good for him. He needed to fill a bunch of holes, specifically at QB, RB, and OLB. In one fell swoop he got McNabb, Foster, and Arrington and all he had to give up was Steve Smith, an '06 3rd, and an '07 1st and 2nd.

On a related note, you guys are probably glad, then, that MM turned down our offer yesterday of 2 first rounders for Chad Johnson!!

[Shep]

Obviously I have a biased view, but this is another example of what can be thought of as a bad trade now and later looked at by others as, crap, why didn't I trade for those guys.

Slappers got:
McNabb - guy has posted 30+/game in EFS the past several years (even before TO came to town)
Arrington - he is boom or bust, could be a dud like this year or a top 5 guy like he was a couple years ago.
Foster - low salary guy that will IMO be back in Carolina next year. Has injury issues, but when on the field scores well.
Mason - we needed to return a WR in the deal and Mason is a solid EFS scorer.

We got:
Steve Smith - obviously a top flight WR which is what we were looking for in the offseason.
2006 3.3, 2007 #1 & #2 - draft picks are always a crapshoot. We are in a league where we have Phillip Rivers, Troy Williamson, Mike Williams, and Reggie Williams all eating up cap space and have done little or nothing to this point to help our team.

Slappers needed players that could make an impact now and we needed to clear some cap space andwanted some future picks plus a top WR for the guys we were dangling in the trade market.

[MICHIGAN MOUNTAINS]

That was one 1st rounder for Chad Johnson and two 1st rounders for J Vilma. Speak of the devil. King Mike that new robe your wearing sure does bring out your best feature.......and my Shep what big teeth you have! ;)lol lol I'm kill'in myself with this stuff! I like the part about one fell swoop too. Sounds like a bed time story. Like I said, don't let these guys put you to sleep!!!!!!! They've even got the best of me in a trade or two. Heres the love.........:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:.. .........in one fell swoop the MICHIGAN MOUNTAINS led by J Vilma and Larry Johnson ram it up the Rflr's @$$ and Break it off (with a capitol B), just like in the movie Robin Hood. lol lol lol. Welcome to Sherwood!!!!!

[RFLers]

MM, yep you're right. We offered just one first rounder for Chad. Will you change your mind if we give you two???

[alvin57]

Hey champs...the least you could have done for slapper is throw in a team Doctor with the bunch of cripples you shipped him.;)

[Kriegz12]

don't really have much to say regarding the deal, but I will say that I agree 200% on the 'high draft picks eating salary cap space' thing. That's why I set up myself for 4 #1s in 07, .... with the hope that at least one of them will pan out :)

[sol diablos]

For the record I was not bashing the trade. I was simply saying we should all be gunning for the champs and it just so happens to be you guys at the moment.

Obviously none of us can predict the future, so only time will tell who gets the better of this deal.

On a side note I am always amazed at how many draft picks the RFLers seem to have. To me that just means they are doing a great job of scouting talent.They have so muchtalent on their rosterthey can simply trade some awaytoaccumulate draft picks whenever they wish. That is simply them being good at what they do, so none of us should be knocking them for the time and effort they put into this league. I am in another league with them and they by far are the most active in the other league.

That said Motown is still the Evil Empire! :)

[Shep]

sol diablos wrote:
That said Motown is still the Evil Empire! :)

Finally something we can all agree about, buy that man a Budweiser :D

[MICHIGAN MOUNTAINS]

For the record I am speaking of the last two trades, :) Chaun Thompson trade too. And a few other trades.I don't like to see the Holts, Barbers, Steve Smiths, ect. ect. getting traded to the top dog teams. Do you think that the Chargers are gonnatrade LT2 to the Steelers?Like to build for the futureor something? You'd have to be nuts in the head!Plus,the champion's future picks are at the bottom of the draft order. For the double whammy.I may be bashing, but really I am just looking for a little check and balance in the trading arena. And I do have great respect for everyone in our league, so don't let me wreck anybodies enjoyment of the game with my last few posts. Also, I hope Smith collides with his QB in preseason, breaking both of their legs:P. That is as long as theydon't get packaged together ina farm auction shortly there after.

[RFLers]

MM, just so you know, your posts aren't being taken the wrong way. They've actually added a bit of zest to an otherwise boring part of the off-season.

BTW, I forgot about our trade of Chaun Thompson. I just took another look at it and I can see why that one, coupled with our most recent trade, could piss a few folks off.

The teams that we traded with definitely got better, but so did we.

Hey, one last thing, the current trade under vote is DJax for an '06 1st and 3rd. Damn, we would have given up more than that for him. He would have been a nice addition to our improving WR stable.

[Kriegz12]

I agree, this is a fun discussion, it's even funny. What Mountains is saying anyway. I went back and looked at my deals with RFLers (since they are being proclaimed the Ron Wolf of this league :) .... trying to figure out when/where I got the worse end of a deal. Couldn't do it. And of all the teams in this league to complain about my deals, MM comes forward. lol. Let's go ask MoSo if he'd like to trade me Torry Holt for Odell Thurman right now. In hindsight, would I trade Tiki Barber again for just a #1 pick? maybe not, but at the time, I also thought Dhani Jones would help me out a little more. Is Barber for a #1 the worst trade you've ever seen. Doubt it.

Chaun Thompson? Besides the fact that he's a 25 year old starting LB on an improving young defense (the Cromell factor), I've got a few other reasons why I like the situation this player is in. When RFLers came to me about Julian Peterson during the season I asked him for Thompson in return and was turned down (I still have that e-mail if you wanna see it Mike :) .... so, instead I took a 1st rder and threw him a 5th. Then, after the season is over, we talk about Thompson again. I deal him a #1, yep, the same #1 he gave me for Julian. I had my eye on Chris Snee immediately after the season was over. He'll take a 2nd rder in RFA to acquire. RFLers offers me two low 2nd rders for my 2nd overall in the rd. Why wouldn't this help me? I was gonna lose it to Beer Men anyway. Which leaves a #1 07'fora 2nd and 4th in 06'. I wouldn't do this deal by itself, but in the overall picture, I'm fine with it. The #1 in 07' (btw) belongs to Sol Diablos (one of those 'bottom of the draft order' teams, you like to talk about). One might also take into consideration the contract situation of both Julian and Chaun 2 years/2.813 vs 3 years/.912. If one so chose to.

So, what did I do with RFLers? Traded 27 year-old Free Agent Julian Peterson, a #1 in 07, and a high second rder this season .... for 25 year old Chaun Thompson, two second rounders this season (one of which is now Chris Snee) and two mid rd picks. Do I expect other owners to agree with my deals? I could care less. But if you're gonna acuse of being nuts in the head don't contradict yourself by saying you 'have great respect for everyone in the league'. In your mind, I'm an owner who is failing to abide to your checks and balances in the league. It's cool. I don't claim to be an expert, but I know I'm not an idiot. There were A LOT of things I did in year 1, that maybe I wouldn't have done with more experience in EFS, but whats done is done.

If RFLers offered me right now, to negate the last two deals we made, I'd turn him down. What happens in the future is a matter of opinion. I know one thing for sure, when the playoffs start, it's anybody's ballgame, the key is getting there. Unless we have a reallignment, teams such as Sol Diablos, RFLers, and MoSo are not in my division :) Oops, I guess two of them are with you. Ya know, I didn't even realize that until now ;) I don't claim to be a fantasy genius but I doubt anyone in this league weighs more 'factors' than I do when making a trade. Good luck this season.

[Kriegz12]

tell you what MM. If you feel the need to trash my fantasy skills. Let's put a wager on this season. most total points for the year. That way, division strength, whatever, is not a factor. Come on, I took over this team just last season! How could an owner so 'nuts in the head' possibly have a better team than you, one of the original members of this league? How about $100.00? just for a little extra fun.

[MICHIGAN MOUNTAINS]

I was referring to the trading of LT2 to the steelers as to the whacked in the head type thinking. And it wasn't directed at any one owner. Ok?Plus I didn't say that any of the new owners can't handle thisor anything like that. The truth is that I have been Impressedwith the handling of these franchises sincethey were reassigned. The progress stands out andis almost hard to believe. We might just want to be cautious of whowe jump in bed with to gain ground. You need to bet the $100.00 against the Rflers, not me.Only then will you knowwho the true enemy is. aaaso Somebody make me stop. I can't take it anymore. lol,Call Sid or something!

[Kriegz12]

who do you suggest I make trades with? the teams in my division? don't you see the risk in that? I haven't dealt one young player since I've joined this league. Peterson and Will Allenwere the only ones under 30 in fact (Barber, Holt, Plummer, Keyshawn, etc.) I remained competitive up until the very end of last season, while at the same time preparing myself for this year and next (when a 'new owner' really does have an opportunity to make an impact). And I'd be a fool to bet $100.00 against RFLers. Their team is stacked. Yours is not. Neither is mine. Like I said, it was a proposed wager made 'for fun'. When it comes to making deals I can't worry about other teams, just my own. I don't weigh the fact of 'will this propel their team to Patriot like status?', because, in the end competing against one individual team (particularly out of my division) is almost a non-issue. IMO, I've done an all-right job putting together 'my team' .... as most/if not all of the original players, from when I took over, are long gone. I currently have one player on defense over the age of 28 (Orpheus Roye, who, if anyone wants, e-mail me :) and my offensive line is anchored by 3 Giants, a Bengal, and Ram, also all under the age of 28. 3 of them have been added in the last year. It's not like my young guys are pine riders waiting for their opportunity. I fully expect to be in the playoffs this year.

There's disadvantages to trading with anyone, just because a team is on top, doesn't mean they should be excluded from potential deals. They want to take on older vet player to maintain their reign? good for them. I want to get a decent young player to compete now and be right there with them down the road. FWIW, I also thought RFLers got the better end of the McNabb deal, but who knows? Like someone said, four 'starting positions were filled' and calling McNabb a bad QB is a big reach. The guy is a very good QB, with or without TO.

[RFLers]

Hey Kriegz,

I shold clarify my earlier remark about Thompson. I didn't mean to imply you made a poor trade. What I meant is that I could see how it'd piss some other owners off because I was able to obtain 2 more 1sts and a 2nd while giving up a player I couldn't start because of depth at OB (as well as 2 2nds, a 4th, and a 5th). I still think that was a very fair trade.

[alvin57]

It sure is getting interesting here! I gotta say that keeping things lively in Jan./Feb. sure helps that in-between time go faster. I know as a "veteran" of 2 years here,that I learned so much about how to play the hard way.I can see,without any animosity,how much of an advantage RFLers had at the start having been an experienced player up against newbies like us.But they've always answered all of my stupid questions and been helpful.Maybe they knew the importance of draft picks or rfa etc. before we did,but isn't that just the same as the NFL experience we are all shooting for here? Some GM's have more experience than others..some gotta learn the hard way!As long as every team gives a crap and is involved that's what i'm looking for. Hey,I was a sub-.500 team in year 1 and won my division and made it to the Supe last year...and i've made plenty of mistakes. I'm enjoying the experience...hope everyone else is too.

[RFLers]

Hey, on a related note, don't forget that Shep and I voluntarily reversed one trade and then made a significant mod to another one where we threw in a #2 after a few guys weren't too happy with us?

Remember the one we did before the vet draft where we traded our entire set of upcoming rook picks for a vet #1 and #3? That sure caused a ruckus.

I think the other trade had to do with trading Charles Rogers and a 2nd for L. Coles and a 1st. I don't recall who we traded with, but it might have been MM :)

[Kriegz12]

Mike, I didn't mean to sound like I was defending myself to you. When two teams make a deal, both sides should always think they got the better ened of the deal, or that it was (at the least) fair. Otherwise, why would they agree? Do I make trades and say 'well, they got the better deal' .... no. We all have different plans in place, and different opinions. So, one teams view is always different than anothers. As far as our draft picks gp, in the end, I think they pretty much balanced out. Again, you may like your end of that deal more, which I could understand. So, when all was said and done, our deals came down to Thompson for Peterson. A case could be made for both sides/players. I'd expect it from the two teams involved in the deal.

[Shep]

Now this is why I like EFS so much. Anyone else having this much chatter intheir local leagues in February? I've seen too many trades in the past that look one sided at the time of the trade, only to look the opposite a year later. EFS brings so much more to the table than the typical fantasy league. Carry on....

[MICHIGAN MOUNTAINS]

This is a good one..... I was just thinking about this last week and looking back, this is funnier than hell to menow. If you remember back aways, I've had to battle it out with Shep before........when the gravy on the Rflers plate was getting a little too thick ( like it is now:)). Anyway,I think it wasduring the veteran draft, I waslipping off on the message board, ticked off. Then right after I posted on the board, Sid adds a comment andsome advice. I had no clue who Sid was (the Moderator), but when he posted I was infuriated. This is the funny part. I posted and told Sid to mind his own business and get the hell off of our message board! Man, was I ticked. I though he was from another league or something! He never responded after I told him to beat it, so it never hit me until last week that Iwas so mad I tryedto kick the moderator off the EFS message board. lol

[Shep]

MICHIGAN MOUNTAINS wrote:
so it never hit me until last week that Iwas so mad I tryedto kick the moderator off the EFS message board. lol
He is also one of the managing partners in the EFS financial group, so you were telling the owner to get lost ;) Sid's a cool guy though. I think he was just worried that a new league could get offon thewrong foot and enter the point of no return.

[MICHIGAN MOUNTAINS]

We might just want to take into consideration if the deal is goingto propel the Rflers to patriot like status. And we certainly, by all means want to cut them off inanyway we can in the rookie draft........... Can I get a Hell Yeah!........Gordon are you with me!I don't want to be mailing a check to these guys every year! I will be posting a rookie draftguide with draft tips,as the draft draws near. I'm not joking about that..........Farewell and adieu to you,fair Spanish ladies, farewell and adieu to you, ladies of Spain:D.....

[Shep]

MICHIGAN MOUNTAINS wrote:
And we certainly, by all means want to cut them off inanyway we can in the rookie draft........... Can I get a Hell Yeah!........Gordon are you with me!
Hmmm... Sounds like collusion to me :P

[MICHIGAN MOUNTAINS]

"Cage goes in the water..........you go in the water........sharks in the water......our shark....."- Captian Quinn

[sol diablos]

RFLers wrote:
Remember the one we did before the vet draft where we traded our entire set of upcoming rook picks for a vet #1 and #3? That sure caused a ruckus.




Yes I do... 3 day old tuna sitting in theBahamasun.

Knowing what I know now I would want those 2 vet picks over all my rookie pickseverytime. I would grab two ILB with them!!!!!!

To your defense you did let us know how important the ILB position was before the vet draft... and I should have listed. Looking back taking Tory Holt in round 1 of the vet draft was sooooo stupid!

[sol diablos]

MICHIGAN MOUNTAINS wrote:
I will be posting a rookie draftguide with draft tips,as the draft draws near. I'm not joking about that..........
I can't wait to read this... when will the first edition be hitting the shelves? :shock:

[sol diablos]

MICHIGAN MOUNTAINS wrote:
Cage goes in the water..........you go in the water........sharks in the water......our shark.....
MM maybe it is just me but sometimes I don't understand what you are saying? :?

"If the fans don't come out to the ball park, you can't stop them." - Yogi Berra

[Shep]

sol diablos wrote:
MICHIGAN MOUNTAINS wrote:
Cage goes in the water..........you go in the water........sharks in the water......our shark.....
MM maybe it is just me but sometimes I don't understand what you are saying? :?

"If the fans don't come out to the ball park, you can't stop them." - Yogi Berra

Yo Gi is classic, some of my favs:

"Baseball is 90% mental,the other half is physical."

"A nickel ain't worth a dime anymore."

"You can observe a lot just by watchin'."

"Always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't go to yours."

"You better cut the pizza in four pieces because I'm not hungry enough to eat six."

[sol diablos]

Shep wrote:
sol diablos wrote:
MICHIGAN MOUNTAINS wrote:
Cage goes in the water..........you go in the water........sharks in the water......our shark.....
MM maybe it is just me but sometimes I don't understand what you are saying? :?

"If the fans don't come out to the ball park, you can't stop them." - Yogi Berra

Yo Gi is classic, some of my favs:

"Baseball is 90% mental,the other half is physical."

"A nickel ain't worth a dime anymore."

"You can observe a lot just by watchin'."

"Always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't go to yours."

"You better cut the pizza in four pieces because I'm not hungry enough to eat six."

Me too.Backin 2001 myold company held an event at Yankee Stadium. Theyhad him signing photographs taken of yourself with him. I got to talk baseball with him for about 10 minutes. He was such a great guy andreally funny. One of those people that made you feel like you knew each other for years.

If you don't trade with RFLers, I can't stop you. - MM?

[Shep]

sol diablos wrote:
If you don't trade with RFLers, I can't stop you. - MM?

:D

[alvin57]

I will not permit any MMbashing!! Shoot,guy keeps things livelier than a New Orleans Cathouse here.He's the straw that stirs the drink! However...MM,I can't join the RFL boycott/trade embargo,as I finished ahead of 14 others last year and am probably in line as the next target! Plus,I know that eventually Diablos is gonna get even with me for bidding up his qb's last season when he was in a pinch!....Now...more importantly,what do we have to do to get some of the "less active and less vocal" guys onto the board here? Cmo'n Superpions,let's hear from ya S&S...all you guys that have work getting in the way of making this your fulltime job....get out from behind the desk and let's hear from you!!

[Shep]

alvin57 wrote:
Now...more importantly,what do we have to do to get some of the "less active and less vocal" guys onto the board here? Cmo'n Superpions,let's hear from ya S&S...all you guys that have work getting in the way of making this your fulltime job....get out from behind the desk and let's hear from you!!
I concur!!

[MICHIGAN MOUNTAINS]

Thats a quote from captain quinn. When mr. hooper wants to bring his shark cage. I think I am gonna go for a Quinn avatar if I can figure out htf to enter one (I've got some photos). I usually ask Rfler Mike to load my avatar. <<<<<< LOL Why did I loose my helmet with the MM on it anyway? The draft guide should be out soon after the nfldraft -time permitting.Just a few pointers. For those who like to draft OL, defensive players, and QBs in the first Round or so. I'm hoping that I don't see RBslike Lendale White, and the Wisconsin RB or any other top 6 or 7RB on the board when the 1-8 pick rolls around (according to hoyle).Maybe I will have the MM Deck of 52. Like the one where Saddom is the Ace of spades. How many of those guys did we ever get anyway?

[RFLers]

so where does your taking Henry in the 3rd rank :D

I suppose right about where taking Barlow with the 2.11 and Arrington with the 3.10 ranks for me and shep :shock:

sol diablos wrote:
Looking back taking Tory Holt in round 1 of the vet draft was sooooo stupid!

[Syracuse Slappers]

Tinkerbell, huh? MM, you always seem to amaze me. Learn how tomanage a salary cap then you can come talk to me about trades

If you thought that the trade was one sided, which is wasn't, then you should have posted it at the time. Not that I need to justify it, here it goes:

If I have ever, ever seen a better "Sell High" situation, it is definitely with Steve Smith. It is my opinion that he has peaked. He will not have another year like this one and I made out pretty good on this deal. Oh yeah, I could really give a xxxx about who I made the trade with. They had what I wanted and I got it.



Thank you and have a nice day.:P

[ghost]

Rflers, you should have thrown an offer at me. But I would have probally turned it down. I wanted another 1st round pick, cause I don't have a 2nd, and I might be moving my 1-5 in a trade to pick up a decent qb. Like M.M said, I don't trade great talent to the team kicking my ass. But Ted is at the bottom of our divison, so I felt easier trading him away to him.

So all knows, I'm willing to trade Harrington and my 1-5 for a good qb.

[MICHIGAN MOUNTAINS]

So........ would theMatt Schaub situationbe a "sell low" situation?......... Cause if it is, I'm Interested. Tbell was just a metaphor. Not really directed towards one owner.

[bkslast]

WOW! Miss a couple of days and the message board lights up. I must admit that the 1/2 hour it took me to read everything was quite entertaining.

[alvin57]

ghost wrote:
Rflers, you should have thrown an offer at me. But I would have probally turned it down. I wanted another 1st round pick, cause I don't have a 2nd, and I might be moving my 1-5 in a trade to pick up a decent qb. Like M.M said, I don't trade great talent to the team kicking my ass. But Ted is at the bottom of our divison, so I felt easier trading him away to him.

So all knows, I'm willing to trade Harrington and my 1-5 for a good qb.
Suggestion S&S....drop Harrington from that offer....you'd have a better chance of making the trade without burdening someone with that rag arm.This message coming from the poor schmuck that is sitting with "the williams bros." on the receiving end of his poorly thrown 5 yd. passes.If the Lions don't get themselves a professional qb soon,they're gonna be in much worse shape than you..if it makes you feel any better!

[MICHIGAN MOUNTAINS]

The michigan mountains would like to trade DE Leonard LittleRams, GRyan Lilja Colts, T Kevin ShafferFalcons.

[MoSo]

Shep wrote:
sol diablos wrote:
That said Motown is still the Evil Empire! :)

Finally something we can all agree about, buy that man a Budweiser :D





Yeah but you know what. Laugh it up about cap problems but when you trade all of your draft picks, you dont have to worry about cap space and can just get established players. Make no mistakes about it, last year my team was DECIMATED by injuries. That wont happen this year!!!