QUARTERBACK HURRIES

[Natalie Portman]

To EFS Admin--

In the NFL Gamebook, the defensive statistic Quarterback Hurries (QH) is now being recorded.

Is this something that can be looked at behind the scenes in 2006 for possible implementation in 2007?

It is certainly a very relevant element of the NFL game, and is worthy of a reward in EFS. It could serve as the pass rusher's equivalent of a Pass Defended.

Nothing is more frustrating than when a pass rusher spends the entire game in the face of an opposing QB, forces several quick throws for incompletions, but isn't rewarded in EFS scoring because the QB was able to get rid of the ball each time (instead of actually being sacked).

A Defensive End could very well dominate an entire game, withmultiple QHs,and yet only score 3 or so points because the opponent constantlyran away from him.

Thisaddition to EFS would be an excellent reaction tothe NFL rule changes in recent years which allow QBs to get away with what was clearly interpreted as Intentional Grounding for decades.

It would seem extremely logical to award 2 or 3 points for each QH (most likely a positionalslide in Enhanced Scoring... 2 for DBs & ILBs, 3 for OLBs and DL... or, perhaps, 2 for DBs, 3 for LBs and 4 for DL). Players with near Sacks would at least get some credit for creating havoc and impacting the game.

[paladisiac]

Things like this need to be researched to understand the full impact of adding a new statistic to efs. i would also like to see it added for 2007, but without any prior "quartback hurries" stat to look at to determine the impact to PPG, i don't see this added until 2008 following the first full season this new QH stat has been implemented by the NFL gamebook. This would also allow for us to make sure the gamebook sticks with this new statistic for the 2008 season.

that's just my opinion.

[Pault351]

I find it an interesting idea also. I'm in League 2, still a beta league. I wouldn't be opposed to trying it in Beta next year. Paul

[paladisiac]

good point -- this is a good beta league idea.

[Natalie Portman]

Trying it out in a beta league right away seems like a fine idea.

I realize that adding a new stat requires research to determine the impact. The reasonI posted on the topic early was with the hope that the research and testing could be done during the 2006 season.

If it's possible to make it happen, it would be a lot cooler to add it for 2007 instead of waitingover two years.

Also, about whether the stat will continue to be listed in the NFL Gamebooks, there seems to bea pretty easy way to handle this. At some point after the 2006 season is over, if EFS determines that adding the QH stat would be a good idea, a phone call could be placed to the NFL public relations office in New York. They would almost certainly be able to answer, or steer you to the right person to ask,whether the Gamebook will continue to include Quarterback Hurries in the future.

[jwsmen]

I agree about beta testing right away. That is what beta leagues are for. The question is whether or not it can be coded for in time to get it into beta for this year.
Based on the # of QH's in the gamebook, counting it in a similar fashion as a solo or assisted tackle seems logical. However, we don't know what constitutes a hurry. If the QB has to essentially throw it away to be counted as a hurry then I think the value increases to something like a pass defended.

I am just glad the NFL recognizes that new stats are worth tracking and include them in the gamebooks.

Jason

[tec]

i would propose that the value be something less than half a sack, say 2 or 3 points.



tc

[sid]

Currently, we do not have a "home" for it, I will get with Dave "the stats man" Taylor and see what we can do. If we get the number... Ill take a look at getting it in asap for beta, if not, it may wait a year.

[Natalie Portman]

Are we going to get the process rolling for Quarterback Hurries in time for the start of 2007 as was stated by Sid before last season?

[RioMike]

Are we going to do this for 2007?

49ers Reloaded

[paladisiac]

i forgot about this. it's partially up to Stan. Stan, i'd like to implement this for beta leagues, if it can be isolated that way. What do you think?

[jwsmen]

I'd like to recommend scoring the hurries at +3 for each one recorded. To adjust for the additional category that will only affect the defensive side of the ball, I think we should look to adjust the scoring of sacks for OLB's and DE's by reducing the sack scoring from +12 to +10 to help compensate for the additional scoring. This stat will not affect all defenders equally but I think that it will impact the OLB's and DE's the most so I think there needs to be some scoring adjustment to keep the scoring spread in tact with a slight increase added from the new category.

We should try to get the # of sacks recorded last season vs. the # of QB hurries and see what the correlation is. That will help with assessing the number.

Also, does a player get credit for a hurry only if the QB is not sacked and the pass is incomplete? We should find a clear understanding of what constitutes a hurry so we can make a solid judgment on scoring.

[EhrichRose]

i would propose that the value be something less than half a sack, say 2 or 3 points.



tc


I like the idea of adding another scoring line for DL and even blitzing LBs and DBs. I would like to see it looked at in terms of the points allocated for the sack. Currently, I think the sack is too dominant a scoring reward. It is worth more than a TD and more than a turnover. As important as a sack is, a team that records six sacks may win the game, but rarely does a team with six TDs lose, yet the scoring is 2-1 in the opposite direction. So Any scoring that would reflect:


1 Sack, 2 QH, 2 Tackles, 1 assist.... and yield about 16 ppg. I think is a good stat line scoring in proportion to the performance.

Likewise 3 Qh, 3 Tackles, 2 assist.... Should also yield about 16 ppg

[jwsmen]

The key is to keep scoring balanced as much as we can among positions. Lowering the sack totals would devalue defensive linemen when compared to other positions. We would have to make sure that the presence of QB Hurries can help compensate for most of the scoring potential that sacks currently generate. It's like horseshoes. You still get points for being close and that is what QH's should be thought of as.

[shageman]

... and to which site can we direct our attention to on Sundays to see if our players are "hurrying the QB"? My fave is CBSportsline, and I know they do not keep track of, nor show individual players stats for, QB hurries.

As I'm bouncing from site to site, I'm having a hard time period trying to find QB Hurry stats.

shageman
CID305

[seabass231]

NFL.Com keeps track of QH's, but don't list them in their sortable stats...they are in the official gamebook.

[paladisiac]

my proposal for QH = 4 pts for DL, 4 pts for OLB, 3 pts for ILB, 2 pts for DB. This way, for defensive linemen and blitzing linebackers, 3 quarterback hurries is as valuable as a sack (approximately)

[sid]

We will look at this now, but only in an evaluation stage. I have spoken with Dave "the stats man" Taylor and he can give us the numbers.

HOWEVER, we are 10 months from losing the ability to run our old code. Rock is working to replace all that code in the next few months. Bottom line is, until all the code is over to java, I will not even try to make this change. Our lease is up in 10 months and at that point the old code will not run. So until the conversion is completed, we cannot try this or any other scoring change.

Point being, we have to get all systems over to Java/WebSphere before we make a move on this.

[paladisiac]

Ok, i will try to hurry up on this. i've already scheduled a day off to focus on finishing up EFS stuff. (Don't worry, i wanted a day off anyway, so this gives me an excuse to work on it.) For the record, this is what i have left:

practice squad = 100% coded, 100% tested
practice squad bidding = 50% coded, 25% tested
active squad = 55% coded, 25% tested
drafted players = 30% coded, 0% tested
owner rank = minimal% coded, 0% tested

My day off is june 21 so i'm going to try to have the PS stuff done and installed by then and hope to do a lot of work on "drafted players" next. After being "on schedule" around april 15, i'm now behind schedule by about a month. Overall i should easily finish everything cgi-to-java in 10 months, but sh|t has just come up. (There'll still be piddly html-to-java(jsp) after that too.)

Once i'm done, i'd like to take a handful of solid football enhancements and try to have those ready for 2008, then move on to baseball. The football enhancements i like the most = redoing penalties, quarterback hurries & conditional performance picks.

[Natalie Portman]

does a player get credit for a hurry only if the QB is not sacked and the pass is incomplete? We should find a clear understanding of what constitutes a hurry so we can make a solid judgment on scoring.


The NFL will only give a defensive player credit for a Quarterback Hurry on an incomplete pass.

Unlike the INT/PD situation, the defender is not credited with both.

[paladisiac]

Update (in order they will be coded):

owner rank (w/improvements) = 100% coded, 100% tested

practice squad bidding = 50% coded, 25% tested
---
Hoping to have the new owner rank page (w/ new features) installed within the next week. PS bidding done by end-of-september.