EFS Statement Regarding M. Koenen

[FantasyGM]

First off, I would like to that everyone for taking the time to provide us with your thoughts and concerns regarding this very unusual situation. We were not intentionally ignoring all of your posts. We wanted to approach this decision with as much information as possible. EFS firmly believes in sticking to the rules already in-place. To adjust the rules and/ or scoring principles a week prior to the start of the 2006 season would cause more harm than good. EFS' official depth chart reference is Ourlads.com and as of September 1, 2006, Ourlads still has Koenen listed as the Falcons punter while Tony Yelk is the place kicker. EFS positions will become final for the 2006 season the Thursday after the week 1 games are completed. If he is still listed as the Falcons punter and only a punter at this time, then he will remain at this position for 2006.

If Koenen islisted as botha punter and kicker on or before the EFS positional deadline of September 14, 2006. Then we will make an arbitrary decision as to his official EFS position for 2006. This decision will be made within one day of learning of his dual role for the Falcons. No matter what position or positions he plays at,EFS will award or deduct fantasy points based on all of his on-the-field performances using the scoring systems currently in place.

We also believe that this entire situation might turn out to be a non-issue. The Falcons will most likely bring in a new punter anduse Koenen as their kicker. Even in Thursday nights game Koenen did all of the place kicking and no punting. M. Kesic did all of the punting duty and did pretty well (5 punts - 36.6avg - 1 inside 20 - 48 long).

EFS will continue to monitor this situation but we have every belief that theFalconswill make him just a kicker and a new punter will be signed.

Other News
- A quick reminder that practice squad bidding begins this Monday! So check your rosters or someone else will :shock:

- If you entered a starting roster for week one already, please double-check it. We had some minor issues with scoring/line-up formats but they have been resolved.

Thank you,
Keith - EFS

[JungleHamsters]

Koenen is now officially listed as Punter and kicker on Ourlads....

[JungleHamsters]

i guess its now 1 day till we find out what position he is

[FantasyGM]

Looks as if the Falcons are not going to make this easy for us. After speaking with Stan yesterday we are prepared to make his official EFS position a XK for the 2006 season in the event Atlanta does not sign another XK or XP. Please plan your line-ups accordingly.

[Lestat]

Not so fast.....

A few facts:

Median punter average: 15.25
Median kicker average: 12.62

Average punter average: 14.67
Average kicker average: 12.92


This reclassification of making Koenen a XK is a major inconvenience and unnecessary one for Koenen owners. All year long most Koenen owners were counting on him being their opening day punter. Most EFS teams only carry one punter going into week 1. Now all those teams will have to waste a contract year and bid on another punter. As of now, Atlanta has yet to bring in a backup punter. Atlanta does have a kicker on their practice squad. There is no evidence that Koenen will be relieved of his punting duties, why make the change?

Bryon
Lestat

[perriconer]

It's what I have been saying all along. Punters get too many points. A 40 yard punt average does not deserve 12 pts. Please look into taking away points for punt average. Just award points to punters for doing something good, and take away for doing something bad. It's the only position that receives points for doing something bad.

Punters should not be averaging more points than DT's and XK's. If a punter punts the ball once all day for 32 yards and the PR fair catches it at the 19 he gets 12 pts, that is not a good punt and does not deserve as many points as an average PK or DT.

[JungleHamsters]

Lestat, Kickers have way more of an opurtunity to blow up and score huge, punters keep a steady score and have hardly any chance to blow up for 30-40 points a game if any...

Its a way bigger advanatge for a tyeam to have koenen as a Punter cuase then in essense they have too kickers who could blow up and score 30-40 points each.

Witgh koenen a kicker now that is decreased and it doesnt given them a bigger unfair shot as most people with koenen lucked out with him being a punter kicker this year already having him on the roster, or bid a ton to get him

[sid]

I'm am overridding my own decision (sorry Keith) because of this.

Some owners picked up this goon BEFORE he was a place kicker. They relied on this to set their rosters and make FA bids. Because of this HE WILL BE A PUNTER FOR 2006, we are working on code changes to make this not relevent in 2007. Sorry for the confusion. All my fault, I actually thought the guy was a kicker in 2005 which swayed my decision. There will not be another change.

[JungleHamsters]

PLayers switch positions all the time, some players will move from ILB to OLB, some from DE to LB,some from HB to FB.

Just cuase he was a punter last year, doesnt mean he shoudl stay that, some players will be starting at one position for week one but by the end of it will be another.

[perriconer]

Just an FYI, I HAVE Koenan in one of my leagues. I still think the decision stinks, there was plenty of time to make a change. It has been known for over a month now that he was going to probably do both jobs. So the change would not have been last minute. I don't think it was in your plans to have a 30-40 PPG punter when you set up EFS and decided to have punting points. As I said before it will be a farce to have a punter decide positioning in leagues where money is changing hands. I have about $750 invested in EFS this year, I don't know about you, but $750 is a lot of money for me to just be throwing away.

This is not a threat and you probably don't even care, but I will be holding out paying my fees, next year, until a change is made regarding punting points. I know Stan said something regarding "coding" is being worked out. I am not sure what that means, but I hope it means that he won;'t be getting points for both jobs or that punting points are going to be lowered in the future.

[perriconer]

Just an FYI, I HAVE Koenan in one of my leagues. I still think the decision stinks, there was plenty of time to make a change. It has been known for over a month now that he was going to probably do both jobs. So the change would not have been last minute. I don't think it was in your plans to have a 30-40 PPG punter when you set up EFS and decided to have punting points. As I said before it will be a farce to have a punter decide positioning in leagues where money is changing hands. I have about $750 invested in EFS this year, I don't know about you, but $750 is a lot of money for me to just be throwing away.

This is not a threat and you probably don't even care, but I will be holding out paying my fees, next year, until a change is made regarding punting points. I know Stan said something regarding "coding" is being worked out. I am not sure what that means, but I hope it means that he won;'t be getting points for both jobs or that punting points are going to be lowered in the future.

[FantasyGM]

perriconer, your points are well taken, thank you. When you think about it, EFS was in a no-win situation for 2006 with this Koenen mess. Since we cannot re-write code in August to reduce scoring output we needed to bite the bullet and run with it for just this year. No system is perfect and it seems as if the NFL surprises us every few years. Just look at the FB Droughns a few years ago that helped/ hurt more than a few teams in EE leagues that year but EFS made adjustments before the next season. For any other fantasy site, this did not cause a problem, nor will Koenen cause a problem for any other site except for us. Stuff like this happens once you go Extreme!

I also want to thank you for your continued and excellent support of EFS, it's people such as yourself that keep us running. I for one do care and I know Stan does as well. We'll fix this issue for 2007, so I hope we can continue to offer you and others a challenging year-round fantasy football experience.

One more point on our waiting issue, we had hoped that the Falcons would've resolved this mess by the end of the pre-season...So much for that :?

[Bluecaterpillar]

perriconer wrote: Just an FYI, I HAVE Koenan in one of my leagues. I still think the decision stinks, there was plenty of time to make a change. It has been known for over a month now that he was going to probably do both jobs. So the change would not have been last minute. I don't think it was in your plans to have a 30-40 PPG punter when you set up EFS and decided to have punting points. As I said before it will be a farce to have a punter decide positioning in leagues where money is changing hands. I have about $750 invested in EFS this year, I don't know about you, but $750 is a lot of money for me to just be throwing away.

This is not a threat and you probably don't even care, but I will be holding out paying my fees, next year, until a change is made regarding punting points. I know Stan said something regarding "coding" is being worked out. I am not sure what that means, but I hope it means that he won;'t be getting points for both jobs or that punting points are going to be lowered in the future.

Rich:
You know I have wavered more than a bit about the Koenen situation, since I would want him to be rewarded for pulling a unique feat, but as well pointed outby you, JPN and others, not to be rewarded to the detriment of EFS as a whole or just each league.

However, I still think an easy out can be taken: each league can still put up to vote whether Koenen should be used... I would hope that high rollers would indeed gather 12/16 votes to play it clean and whomever has the guy would pledge not to use him for as long as he'll remain a 30+ ppg punter.

It's a bit late going into the season, but high rollers even more so than regular players ought to be competitive, surely, but fair competitors as well.

Good luck!
-Blue

[Natalie Portman]

You are going tolist Michael Koenen as a Punter simplybecause he was a Punter in 2005????

Is this your attempt to make the most absurd decision based upon the most absurd reason in EFS history?

The fact that a Kicker OR Punter is definitely going to lead all NFL players in EFS scoring this year is a joke.

The reasons why this flaw would be somewhat minimizedif Koenen is a Kicker have been well documented.

Are you purposely attempting to damage the credibility of your own scoring system more than you need to?

Why would you make the obviously wrong decision when the right one can be implemented so easily?

[Lestat]

JungleHamsters,

So you are saying you would rather have a player that averages less and that has more scoring variance so you could have that one big game once every four or five weeks?

Let me guess, your occupation is not a money-manager.







JungleHamsters wrote: Lestat, Kickers have way more of an opurtunity to blow up and score huge, punters keep a steady score and have hardly any chance to blow up for 30-40 points a game if any...

Its a way bigger advanatge for a tyeam to have koenen as a Punter cuase then in essense they have too kickers who could blow up and score 30-40 points each.

Witgh koenen a kicker now that is decreased and it doesnt given them a bigger unfair shot as most people with koenen lucked out with him being a punter kicker this year already having him on the roster, or bid a ton to get him

[perriconer]

Another "common sense" decision would be if you use Koenan he takes up both spots kicker and punter. That is probably the best idea I have had yet. That is what the falcons are doing. If that situation changes during the year, then EFS reserves the right to make that same change during the year too.

[perriconer]

I would even take it one step furter. If any player is listed as a starter at multiple positions then EFS should also have that player use up multiple positions. IE Koenan as punter and kicker and Danny White as QB and punter. EFS should also have the right to make mid season changes if the team gets a full time starter at any of those positions during the year.

[JungleHamsters]

To make it the most fair in efs i say he should be a kicker cuase if he is listed as that, the total point prodiction is lessened.

Kickers have a far greater shot at hitting 30-40 points a week then punters. So if Koenen is listed as a punter then you have 2 guys who could blow up for 30-40 points plus koenens punting score which would be for arguments sake 12. thats about 70-90 points for your special teams

If koenen is lsited as a Kicker then his output is still the same at a total of 40-50 (kicking and punting) but then you dont have another guy who has a shot at 30-40.

I dont know cuase last years numbers are gone and i dont w3ant to hunt through ODBC for them but punters dont usually score over 20-25 ever.


Do you get my idea now?

Lestat wrote: JungleHamsters,

So you are saying you would rather have a player that averages less and that has more scoring variance so you could have that one big game once every four or five weeks?

Let me guess, your occupation is not a money-manager.







JungleHamsters wrote: Lestat, Kickers have way more of an opurtunity to blow up and score huge, punters keep a steady score and have hardly any chance to blow up for 30-40 points a game if any...

Its a way bigger advanatge for a tyeam to have koenen as a Punter cuase then in essense they have too kickers who could blow up and score 30-40 points each.

Witgh koenen a kicker now that is decreased and it doesnt given them a bigger unfair shot as most people with koenen lucked out with him being a punter kicker this year already having him on the roster, or bid a ton to get him

[Lestat]

You can make the same argument but get an opposite answer. A kicker can easily get negative points on the week by missing a field goal or two.

Whereas, the only way a punter can get negative points is on the very rare occasion of him not getting an opportunity to punt even once. I believe that has happened to Hunter Smith of the Colts once or twice in the past two years.

[JungleHamsters]

of course a kicker can get negative points, but i want to rpoect about the huge point protection they can have, with koenen labeled a punter then you in essence have 2 kickers playing and the chance of scoring huge is greatly increased.

if he was labeled a kicker then the chance to score huger out of those 2 positions is decreased

[perriconer]

Is huger a word?

[TOTAL DOMINATION]

So what is going to happen with this? I understand that EFS was not prepared for this, but something needs to be done to make things fair. The way it appears to me is that anyone who has M. Koenen on there roster right now gets to start 2 kickers every week. Is that right? If so, thats a bit unfair. I knowif I lose to a team with M. Koenen by a few points (the points he earned as a kicker), I am going to feel cheated.

[BaseballJunkieStuart]

As one of the "lucky ones" who has Koenen on his team this season, I think it is sour grapes to be complaining... No one complains about a tight end getting OL bonuses for team rushing yardage on plays run to the opposite side of the field. No one complains about a running back getting points for receiving yardage which is two tasks also. I have yet to see someone complain about a player getting points for return yardage while also scoring at different positions as well. The bottomline is that if a player does multiple tasks and achievements in a game he should be rewarded for each of them.... If people put more time into enjoying the game and realizing that this is the most comprehensive venture in all of fantasy sports, you might realize players rewarded for their performances, ALL of their performances, is what the league is all about. Even offensive players get credit for tackles after a turnover.... This is as comprehensive as humanly possible.... Anything less is unacceptable. If a man was a punter last year and ADDS kicking duties to his job, he is still a punter as well. The guys who run this service have done way above and beyond in trying to appease people (especially newcomers such as myself this season) and helping to educate them about this site. Complain about life or something, but good god, if you were one of the ones who was not smart enough to get him, you miss out... Incidentally, since the Chargers beat the Raiders so badly last night, I want the points that LaDainian Tomlinson "should" have scored but didn't because he was removed late... WAAAAAAAH..... Sound crazy? So do the arguments you are all posting about one of MANY dual role players in the NFL......

[perriconer]

You are way off base. "One of many dual players"? He is the ONLY guy playing 2 positions full time. Thus alloting his owners (which I happen to be one of) use of 2 kickers and 1 punter. EFS management knows there is a problem with this and they will make any necessary changes for the 2007 season. There just wasn't enough time for this year and they did not think it was fair to his owners to make any last minute changes.

All of your other points aren;t even worth debating. IE: team rushing yard pts for TE's (we are talking about 1-2 pts per game) this (Koenan) is about a 15 ppg advantage.

[perriconer]

Ok I can't hold it in.

This is why Koenan is an isolated case, Stuart.

1) All RB's get receiving yard points
2) Many many players get return yard points while receiving points at different positions
3) All TE's get OL points and rushing yard points while plays are run to the other side


There is only 1 player who gets full time points for kicking and punting.

From what I gather, he will still get his points for both next year, but he will hopefully use up 2 positions (XK and XP) just like he does with the falcons. Thus keeping "us lucky ones" from be able to use 2 XK's every week.

[FantasyGM]

$$ Miami Style $$ wrote: So what is going to happen with this? I understand that EFS was not prepared for this, but something needs to be done to make things fair. The way it appears to me is that anyone who has M. Koenen on there roster right now gets to start 2 kickers every week. Is that right? If so, thats a bit unfair. I knowif I lose to a team with M. Koenen by a few points (the points he earned as a kicker), I am going to feel cheated.

EFS has already made a final decision regarding Koenen but to say we were not prepared is completely incorrect. We monitored the situation once the idea was raised of the Falcons using him in this role. If this situation was known back in March-April, we could've possibly looked at making some scoring changes. We will never look to make a rules change a week prior to the start of the season. To do so will open ourselves up to many change requests. If you feel that having Koenen in your starting line-up each week will guarantee you a victory and a EFS championship, then go get him! I'm sure someone will gladly trade youyour missing piece of an EFS championship for a first round pick. I know I would!

As far as EFS is concerned, this matter is closed for the 2006 season. We will re-visit this matter in 2007 if it actually does make a major difference this season.

Thank you,
Keith - EFS

[TOTAL DOMINATION]

When I said that EFS was not "prepared", I did not mean it in the way that EFS was not doing its job. What I meant was, this was something new for this season that was not an issue last year. I understand that EFS new about this a few months back when ATL first kicked around the idea. I love EFS and you guys do a great job. Issues like this cannot be avoided from year to year, however they can be corrected. I agree that making rule changes a week before the season opens is just asking for trouble, so I don't blame EFS for not wanting to do that. Special circumstances should be considered though on a case by case basis.

As far as guaranteeing a EFS championship by having M. Koenen, we all no thats absurd. But a player like thatcould have a negativeeffect on the outcome of a season. I agree with some of the previous posts about designating a K/P position that will fill both slots for next year. As for this year, I am content with the way it is.

Again, EFS is by far the best fantasy site I have ever played on and you guys all do a great job. I recommend you guys all the time. Keep doing what your doing!!

$$Miami Style$$

[Dik Rush]

Basically it comes down to this... If you have Koenen and can play him, most owners will do it so just go ahead. And you know they aren't complaining. Have some faith in your own team. Iplayed the fantasybaseballjunkie (read all about his opinion on Koenenbelow) and he used Mr. Koenen and Mr. Wilkins in week one against me. Now you know Wilkins went 6/7and rockedthe fantasy house! All I can tell you is that it was a non-factor. My victory was bitter sweet!!!

[BaseballJunkieStuart]

good god it sucks bad to be in a league with a true "Dik"..... I get third in the league and still lose.... ahhhhhh life is grand, but Koenen will get you in the rematch

[Legend]

Sure looking like a none issue now.

He misses 4 from 40 and in. I doubt he continues kicking for long now.

[Bluecaterpillar]

Yup... so far, 15 points in wk. 1 and ... negative points in wk. 2???
Ouch... so far, not so good.

[perriconer]

I have him at +1. He is dominating.

I don't think his PK days are going to last very long.

[mikea]

i guess hes nothing but a pile ofcrap...congrats to the ownerswho own him....

whats his name BEN DOVER

[Bluecaterpillar]

mikea wrote: i guess hes nothing but a pile ofcrap...congrats to the ownerswho own him....

whats his name BEN DOVER

Nah, his name is Andersen. LOL!!
So now Koenen is a punter again and will handle 50+ yd kicks... given his current success rate, that could mean a few negative games are still to be had. If so... then Koenen could end up last in XP ranking.

NFL stands for what, again?
-Blue

[perriconer]

It doesn't end with Koenen.

John Kasay gets 11 "extra points" for his great punter replacement job in Carolina. He had a robust 31.5 yard average. Probably will cost me a game in league 11.

70 points for a kicker!!!!!!!! I still think punting and kicking points need to be reworked for 2007

points for yardage not necessary for punters and a bonus for 50+ yard kicks (already get a min of 13pts for that kick) definitely not needed for place kickers are just 2 of the things off the top of my head.

Kickers just get tooooooo many points period!!!!

[Legend]

sid wrote: I'm am overridding my own decision (sorry Keith) because of this.

Some owners picked up this goon BEFORE he was a place kicker. They relied on this to set their rosters and make FA bids. Because of this HE WILL BE A PUNTER FOR 2006, we are working on code changes to make this not relevent in 2007. Sorry for the confusion. All my fault, I actually thought the guy was a kicker in 2005 which swayed my decision. There will not be another change.



Just noticed while looking at Koenen in one of the leagues that he is listed as a XK for EFS postion and XP for NFL position. Does this give a team the option of using him as either a K or a punter or still only as a punter? Just curious as to what was up with that. I noticed that none of the other punters are listed that way.

Under the roster grid page he shows up as both a kicker and a punter on each team that has him.